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Ivy Victoria Hocking
b.1943 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
m.03 August 1963, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
d: 25 January 2023, aged 79, Brandon, MB
b.1943 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
m.03 August 1963, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
d: 25 January 2023, aged 79, Brandon, MB
Not everyone knows who Ivy Victoria is. A rich fancy name for a little girl. Her Identification card reflected this beautiful name, her bank account, a drivers’ licence; formal documents, but Vicky was anything but formal and she would be quick to correct you and tell you her name is Vicky or Vic.
Vic was born in Brandon, Manitoba, Canada, Aug 1943 and although she was very well traveled, she managed to finish here where she started. She was born in the same hospital where she died.
Vicky was the baby of the Hocking family; the last born of seven siblings, 3 sisters, and 3 brothers. She was delivered at the Brandon General Hospital, the only one of the family to be born in a hospital. The family initially lived in a rental place on the hill on Baycrest avenue and then moved to Hilton Avenue in 1948.
Her mother was from the Ukraine and her father was a British subject and a world war 1 Royal navy veteran.
Growing up she picked stolen crab apples with her brothers, she swam in the Assiniboine River, when you could still eat the fish in there. She talked about her father installing a bathroom in the house back in 1956. They didn’t have toilet paper, and they couldn’t afford newspaper, so they resorted to using pages out of the Eaton’s catalogue because the catalogues were free. But
she didn’t like to use the catalogue on cold days.
As a young woman in the 60’s Vic was primarily a waitress. She also did a short stint out at Carnation foods, the potato plant out in Carberry, to help pay for school supplies.
The bain of every parent, is their teenaged children, and Vicky, being no different, at the tender age of 16 found herself with an army buck who was
stationed in Shilo.
I know what you are all thinking, and you would be wrong, It wasn’t Joe! It was a guy named Pat. There was also an interesting and private side story about a man named Spenser in the mix. So, she left all that was good and trusted to search for an exciting life that introduced her to the intrigue of the world.
Thankfully for her kids, she did find herself back in Brandon a couple of years later. Although it was initially challenging for her to come back, she did meet Joe shortly afterward.
She married Joe LeBlanc (she often called Joe, "leblanski") at St. Hedwig’s Church in Brandon. Daniel Benedict Dwyer was Joe's best man and Irene Yonda was Vic’s maid of honour. Joe and Vic travelled down east to Weymouth, Nova Scotia for a honeymoon. After that they returned to Brandon they rented a furnished place at 336 14th St for $65 per month knowing they were soon to be posted to Germany.
So, Vicky and Joe married in 1963 and in the bat of an eye, they celebrated 50 years together in 2013 and Joe died in Dec of that same year.
She was a loyal military spouse and spent 30 years alongside Joe during his military career. The wife of a soldier is not easy, and we think it is fair to say that it was her that raised the kids through those years; with Joe often being away on exercise for months at a time. You really have to be a special kind of person to put up with a soldier.
Vicky always remained connected to her hometown and kept in touch with her family no matter where dad’s army life took them.
Vicky embraced anything with embellishments - lacey curtains, sparkly sequins, blinking garden lights, it looks like Las Vegas in the back yard.
She loved birds and again, the back yard was always full of the noisy little buggers, eating for free in this ginormous bird feeder that joe built for her. Even the famous turkeys of brandon found their back yard. Her favorite bird was the Cardinal and the house was adorned with images of the bird.
She liked dogs and cats, cute stuffies, knick-knacks, scrabble, crossword puzzles, Vicky liked to watch TV commercials
She adored flowers and a good hairstylist. Every Thursday like clockwork
Vicky was very likely the most generous, loving, and feistiest woman that you may have known. It was amazing to seee how strong her spirit was, how independent and brave she could be. When Joe passed away, she had to dig down and rediscover her independence. She pushed through a very scary pandemic. Her children were very proud of her for making it through it all.
She was every bit the soldier that Joe was.
Throughout her short 79 years Vicky found herself with 3 great kids (Michele, Sherry and Ben), a loving husband, 5 wonderful grandkids (Kim, Jessica, Chris, Stefan and Josie) and 2 super greatgrandchildren (Emma and Rowan).
To support and care for her family was always the driving force in her life. Every single family member will remember her words whenever
they headed home after visiting: “Call me when you get home!” and then, of course, the words, “Love you!” came right after.
All of her friends, and some strangers in line in a grocery store, saw the bubbly, social side of Vicky, the one that would hug you and tell you all about her life and be just as interested in learning about your life.
Vic also had a quiet, reflective side. There were times when she was at home and her loneliness would get to her and as her health began to fade, her anxiety would build but she always seemed to pick herself up and get on with the next day. She was like Joe that way, just taking life one day at time.
When Vicky was out having coffee with her friends at Humpty’s, up on the hill, she was happy. She would come home, call up Her daughter, and tell her all about her time with her friends. She always seemed full of life after visiting with her friends.
At this point, We will quickly mention Vics's close friends and neighbors.
Donna, Ed, and Naomie – thank you for always checking on mom and helping her out whenever she needed.
Shirley and Barb – you were always there for my mom, such good friends.
Her old friend benny Smith “Smitty” – your friendship always brought warmth and joy to her life.
Chris and the staff at Humpty’s – she adored all of you, thank you for making her part of your family.
John and Erin, thank you for making my mom look beautiful always.
And a certain guy friend, who shall remain unnamed – thank you for bringing a little “spice” back into her life.
This is the life, and these are the people that helped mould the Vicky that we knew and loved. I think we will remember Vicky as a woman of great strength, devotion, and benevolence (with a touch of stubbornness).
Vicky also had a passionate belief in the ethereal, the spiritual world.
The belief that there was significance in the little things that happened every day, that everything happens for a reason – a found feather would always be a “hello” from Joe, a flower blooming out of season was a message from the spirit world. It was this faith that pulled her out of her dark moments and guided her through her life. She also believed in angels.
One day while out driving around, another car ran through an intersection and mom’s car was flipped upside down. Mom insisted that her guardian angel saved her life that day.
This is the woman who we will remember. A woman of boundless love and affection, an inner strength that always shone through, devotion to family despite our crazy ways, and a feisty spirit that lay hidden just beneath the surface.
Places Vicky lived:
1943: Brandon, Manitoba, Baycrest Avenue
1948: Brandon, Manitoba, Hilton Avenue
1960: Picton, Ontario
1960: St Thomas, Ontario
1960: Germany, Heimer, Hotel
1960: Aylmer, Quebec
1960: Brandon, Manitoba, 52 8th street north, Jess and Mikes place
1961: Brandon, Manitoba, 9th Street, Bill and Marg’s place
1963: Brandon, Manitoba, 336 14th Street, drinks on the roof
1963: Langscheid, West Germany, 42 hauptstraße
1966: Petawawa, Ontario, 4031 Dundonald drive
1969: Oromocto, New Brunswick, 24 Hamilton Court
1971: Oromocto, New Brunswick, 17 Abitibi Street
1974: Riegel, West Germany
1975: Kippenheimwieller, West Germany, 4 IM Dorfgarten
1976: Oromocto, New Brunswick, 11 Comox Street
1979: Shilo, Manitoba, 10 Alfriston Crescent
1983: Brandon, Manitoba, 330 Aberdeen Avenue
2023: Brandon, Manitoba, Cemetary
1943: Brandon, Manitoba, Baycrest Avenue
1948: Brandon, Manitoba, Hilton Avenue
1960: Picton, Ontario
1960: St Thomas, Ontario
1960: Germany, Heimer, Hotel
1960: Aylmer, Quebec
1960: Brandon, Manitoba, 52 8th street north, Jess and Mikes place
1961: Brandon, Manitoba, 9th Street, Bill and Marg’s place
1963: Brandon, Manitoba, 336 14th Street, drinks on the roof
1963: Langscheid, West Germany, 42 hauptstraße
1966: Petawawa, Ontario, 4031 Dundonald drive
1969: Oromocto, New Brunswick, 24 Hamilton Court
1971: Oromocto, New Brunswick, 17 Abitibi Street
1974: Riegel, West Germany
1975: Kippenheimwieller, West Germany, 4 IM Dorfgarten
1976: Oromocto, New Brunswick, 11 Comox Street
1979: Shilo, Manitoba, 10 Alfriston Crescent
1983: Brandon, Manitoba, 330 Aberdeen Avenue
2023: Brandon, Manitoba, Cemetary
Vicky's Jobs throughout her life:
Cleaner, Brandon, North Hill Motel, 75¢/hr
Line worker, Carnation Foods, Quality control
Babysitting – Shilo, Nickerson’s
Waitress, Restaurant Picton, Ontario
Waitress, St Thomas Ontario, Bowling Alley
Carnation Foods, Quality control
Waiter, Sister’s Café, Waitress
Perth’s Dry cleaners, pressing pants
Cleaner, Shilo, 1979-1995
Cleaner, Brandon, North Hill Motel, 75¢/hr
Line worker, Carnation Foods, Quality control
Babysitting – Shilo, Nickerson’s
Waitress, Restaurant Picton, Ontario
Waitress, St Thomas Ontario, Bowling Alley
Carnation Foods, Quality control
Waiter, Sister’s Café, Waitress
Perth’s Dry cleaners, pressing pants
Cleaner, Shilo, 1979-1995
Stanley Hocking
b.11 Dec 1895 Wadebridge, Sub-District of Padstow, County of Cornwall
m.02 May 1931 Basswood, Manitoba, Canada
d.31 Mar 1969 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
b.11 Dec 1895 Wadebridge, Sub-District of Padstow, County of Cornwall
m.02 May 1931 Basswood, Manitoba, Canada
d.31 Mar 1969 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
My Grandfather Stanley Hocking, was born on 11 December 1895 in Wadebridge, England. A small town located at the very southern tip of the Island. William, his father was 27 years old when Stanley was born and already a father of two or three. Stanley's Mother, Beatrice or Jess as I believe she was called, was a couple of years older at 29.
Although born in Wadebridge, the family eventually lived quite a ways further east in the Plymouth area, Likely due to Stanley's father moving around so much (see William's bio below). Census data from 1901 recorded that Stanley lived at 4 Devonshire Lane for a portion of his younger life and a recent search for this address reflects Devonshire "Street", so we have to assume it is the same place.
In 1911, when Stanley was 15 he lived with his family in an apartment at #13 Westeria, Peverell in Plymouth and worked as an errand boy with a local building contractor for a short time.
While living in Plymouth he would have become very familiar with the Royal Navy because they had a large naval base just west of the city, "Devonport Royal Dockyard". His father had a government job on the docks and it is likely that Stanley was employed there himself at some time. His military record indicates that he was a general labourer before joining the war effort in 1915.
In fact, Stanley visited the Recruiting center at Devonport during World War 1 on 12 April 1915. The, then 20 year old, Stanley decided to enlist for a 12 year commitment as a Stoker with the British Royal Navy; of which he only served a total of 8 years. He stood a solid 5'4", just a little guy really. He was assigned the service number K25411. I found it interesting that his service number was simply decided upon by the page number of the serialized register that was used to record his enlistment, it had nothing to do with where you signed up, or what element of the military you joined.
After about two months of basic naval training he was posted to the Dreadnaught class, HMS Thunderer 23 June 1915 and exactly 1 year later, he was promoted to Stoker First Class (12 Apr 1916), literally just days before the famous Battle of Jutland 31 May - 01 June 1916. Life on board ship was hard, dirty work. Stanley was a stoker and it is said that stokers were a rough lot. He was essentially a mechanic of sorts, helping to keep the engines serviceable which also included the hard physical labour of shoveling the coal into the fireboxes. I saw in some images of the time, that the ship had a couple of dog mascots, Sambo & Texal. He remained aboard Thunderer until 02 Mar 1918. Stanley had a bit of a temper and his service record reflected a man that invited trouble.
Stanley was awarded the British War and Victory medals as were all of his crewmates, however, his were subsequently issued to HMS Benbow for disposal; forfeited, because he had "run" in 1921. Navy terminology for, "away without leave", or the less favorable word, desertion. He was absent it would seem, for a few months while posted to HMS Calypso stationed out of Malta. If a person was to go AWOL, then Malta is the place to do it. An island in the Mediterranean between Sicily and the North African coast. However, you're on an island Stan! A small island to boot and eventually, you will be located. Stanley was likely caught and didn't come back on his own accord. He stayed with the ship for an additonal year and then he was posted to HMS Pembroke at the base in Chatham. Something happened to Stan during or after the war; you can see chnage recorded in his service record. I suspect that he signed up primarily to serve in time of war but soon after the war ended, he was tired of the navy and its perverse regulations. During the war, he was assessed annually as "Very good" until Dec 1918, then you can see the first hint of a downward spiral. Once he got to Chatham, his career in the navy was winding down and by Feb 1923. He returned to active duty until a medical release for a dental deficiency. I don't like that he was forced to relingish his medals. The images linked above are replica's.
The record of landing also recorded that Stanley was bound for Winnipeg on the Canadian National Railway. I assume at this point that he had been recruited and employed by the CNR.
He Married Francis in Basswood, Manitoba, 02 May 1931.
In 1942 Stanley moved his family to Brandon, Manitoba and he secured employment as a civilian at the RCAF base in Brandon. The base logs recorded that a project to install stream heating in the messes had begun and he was hired on there because of his experience with boilers in the Navy.
He died of a heart attack on March 31, 1969, in Brandon, Manitoba, at the age of 73 and is buried in the Military Veterans section of the Brandon Cemetery. I noticed in a video dated 1963 that Stan smoked cigarettes
Other notes on Stanley
To explain why he was balding, he told his children that one time while he was in the Navy, he ended up in the brig for some reason or another. At one point he was able to sneak out of the brig and headed down to the mess deck to steal a steak, cook it up and bring it back to his cell. To hide the steak, he put it on top of his head under his cap but it was so hot, it burned all of his hair that never grew back.
He liked to smoke White Owl cigarettes, but he never inhaled them.
In the summer months when it was hot, he didn't like to wear pants while doing the yardwork, so you could sometimes find him mowing the lawn in his boxer shorts and a t-shirt.
Stan didn't have any body hair, slick as a cat. He did have tattoos but, they were old, from the war and not professionally done and by the 1950's they had faded and were difficult to discern.
He liked to draw, he made valentines cards for the kids to bring to school and he was also good at drawing birds.
While working with the Brandon Parks department, he planted trees for the city. He took one of those trees and planted it behind his house. It became quite a big tree and his wife, Francis, liked to sit under it and often fed her pet squirrel there.
The family had a dog named Jack, a black lab. It sported a crude white crucifix on its chest, it was said that it was Stan's dog.
Other jobs: Anglo Oils 18th st and Richmond
Canada Grocers on 8th street
Children:
Annie
Jessie
Helen
William (Bill)
Stan
Richard
Ivy Victoria
Although born in Wadebridge, the family eventually lived quite a ways further east in the Plymouth area, Likely due to Stanley's father moving around so much (see William's bio below). Census data from 1901 recorded that Stanley lived at 4 Devonshire Lane for a portion of his younger life and a recent search for this address reflects Devonshire "Street", so we have to assume it is the same place.
In 1911, when Stanley was 15 he lived with his family in an apartment at #13 Westeria, Peverell in Plymouth and worked as an errand boy with a local building contractor for a short time.
While living in Plymouth he would have become very familiar with the Royal Navy because they had a large naval base just west of the city, "Devonport Royal Dockyard". His father had a government job on the docks and it is likely that Stanley was employed there himself at some time. His military record indicates that he was a general labourer before joining the war effort in 1915.
In fact, Stanley visited the Recruiting center at Devonport during World War 1 on 12 April 1915. The, then 20 year old, Stanley decided to enlist for a 12 year commitment as a Stoker with the British Royal Navy; of which he only served a total of 8 years. He stood a solid 5'4", just a little guy really. He was assigned the service number K25411. I found it interesting that his service number was simply decided upon by the page number of the serialized register that was used to record his enlistment, it had nothing to do with where you signed up, or what element of the military you joined.
After about two months of basic naval training he was posted to the Dreadnaught class, HMS Thunderer 23 June 1915 and exactly 1 year later, he was promoted to Stoker First Class (12 Apr 1916), literally just days before the famous Battle of Jutland 31 May - 01 June 1916. Life on board ship was hard, dirty work. Stanley was a stoker and it is said that stokers were a rough lot. He was essentially a mechanic of sorts, helping to keep the engines serviceable which also included the hard physical labour of shoveling the coal into the fireboxes. I saw in some images of the time, that the ship had a couple of dog mascots, Sambo & Texal. He remained aboard Thunderer until 02 Mar 1918. Stanley had a bit of a temper and his service record reflected a man that invited trouble.
Stanley was awarded the British War and Victory medals as were all of his crewmates, however, his were subsequently issued to HMS Benbow for disposal; forfeited, because he had "run" in 1921. Navy terminology for, "away without leave", or the less favorable word, desertion. He was absent it would seem, for a few months while posted to HMS Calypso stationed out of Malta. If a person was to go AWOL, then Malta is the place to do it. An island in the Mediterranean between Sicily and the North African coast. However, you're on an island Stan! A small island to boot and eventually, you will be located. Stanley was likely caught and didn't come back on his own accord. He stayed with the ship for an additonal year and then he was posted to HMS Pembroke at the base in Chatham. Something happened to Stan during or after the war; you can see chnage recorded in his service record. I suspect that he signed up primarily to serve in time of war but soon after the war ended, he was tired of the navy and its perverse regulations. During the war, he was assessed annually as "Very good" until Dec 1918, then you can see the first hint of a downward spiral. Once he got to Chatham, his career in the navy was winding down and by Feb 1923. He returned to active duty until a medical release for a dental deficiency. I don't like that he was forced to relingish his medals. The images linked above are replica's.
Four years after release from the Royal Navy, Stanley immigrated to Canada; his
record of landing into Canada (#28)
indicates his arrival at the Port of Halifax on 27 March 1927. He was listed as being 30 years old, he had paid for his own ticket, he had $15 to his name and he arrived from Southhampton on the ship SS Pennland of the Redstar line.
He Married Francis in Basswood, Manitoba, 02 May 1931.
In 1942 Stanley moved his family to Brandon, Manitoba and he secured employment as a civilian at the RCAF base in Brandon. The base logs recorded that a project to install stream heating in the messes had begun and he was hired on there because of his experience with boilers in the Navy.
He died of a heart attack on March 31, 1969, in Brandon, Manitoba, at the age of 73 and is buried in the Military Veterans section of the Brandon Cemetery. I noticed in a video dated 1963 that Stan smoked cigarettes
Other notes on Stanley
To explain why he was balding, he told his children that one time while he was in the Navy, he ended up in the brig for some reason or another. At one point he was able to sneak out of the brig and headed down to the mess deck to steal a steak, cook it up and bring it back to his cell. To hide the steak, he put it on top of his head under his cap but it was so hot, it burned all of his hair that never grew back.
He liked to smoke White Owl cigarettes, but he never inhaled them.
In the summer months when it was hot, he didn't like to wear pants while doing the yardwork, so you could sometimes find him mowing the lawn in his boxer shorts and a t-shirt.
Stan didn't have any body hair, slick as a cat. He did have tattoos but, they were old, from the war and not professionally done and by the 1950's they had faded and were difficult to discern.
He liked to draw, he made valentines cards for the kids to bring to school and he was also good at drawing birds.
While working with the Brandon Parks department, he planted trees for the city. He took one of those trees and planted it behind his house. It became quite a big tree and his wife, Francis, liked to sit under it and often fed her pet squirrel there.
The family had a dog named Jack, a black lab. It sported a crude white crucifix on its chest, it was said that it was Stan's dog.
Other jobs: Anglo Oils 18th st and Richmond
Canada Grocers on 8th street
Children:
Annie
Jessie
Helen
William (Bill)
Stan
Richard
Ivy Victoria
Stan's Whereabouts:
1895 Wadebridge, England
1901 Devonport, England
1906 Bere Alston, England
1911 Plymouth, England
1915 RN, Devonport, England
1915-1920 RN, HMS Thunderer
1921 RN, Malta
1927 Devonport, England
1928 Montreal, QC, Canada
1931 Basswood, MB, Canada
1942 Brandon, MB, Canada
1895 Wadebridge, England
1901 Devonport, England
1906 Bere Alston, England
1911 Plymouth, England
1915 RN, Devonport, England
1915-1920 RN, HMS Thunderer
1921 RN, Malta
1927 Devonport, England
1928 Montreal, QC, Canada
1931 Basswood, MB, Canada
1942 Brandon, MB, Canada
William J Hocking
b. 1868, Cornwall, St Thomas
m.20 Oct 1892
d. Likely in Devonport, Plymouth
b. 1868, Cornwall, St Thomas
m.20 Oct 1892
d. Likely in Devonport, Plymouth
William grew up in the country, in and around the small parish of Broadwoodwidger and lived on a property know as Bowlford Cottage. For most of his life, he appeared to move around the county of Cornwall as indicated by the birthplaces of his children. I imagine that as a laborer, he would move to where the work was.
William married Beatrice Jessie Penny on a dry, cool fall day on 20 Oct 1892 in Launceston, Cornwall. William was identified as a General Labourer on Stanely's birth record and the Cenus of 1901 mentioned that he was an Excavator and ten years later, the family was living in an apartment building in the middle of Plymouth and William was employed as a Government laborer at the Devonport Dockyard. The apartment was quite a distance from the dockyard. The census of 1911 includes some very personal and sensitive information about Bill & Beatrice whereby they had three children that had died.
I was told that the image below was that of Beatrice & William, but he doesn't look like a laborer in the photo; he is a little too well dressed in my opinion.
William married Beatrice Jessie Penny on a dry, cool fall day on 20 Oct 1892 in Launceston, Cornwall. William was identified as a General Labourer on Stanely's birth record and the Cenus of 1901 mentioned that he was an Excavator and ten years later, the family was living in an apartment building in the middle of Plymouth and William was employed as a Government laborer at the Devonport Dockyard. The apartment was quite a distance from the dockyard. The census of 1911 includes some very personal and sensitive information about Bill & Beatrice whereby they had three children that had died.
William's Whereabouts:
1868 St. Thomas
1871 Broadwoodwidger
1881 Not found in Census
1893 Camelford
1895 Wadebridge
1901 Devonport, 4 Devonshire Lane
1906 Bere Alston
1911 Plymouth, 13 Westeria, Peverell
1927 Devonport, 146 Ross Street
1868 St. Thomas
1871 Broadwoodwidger
1881 Not found in Census
1893 Camelford
1895 Wadebridge
1901 Devonport, 4 Devonshire Lane
1906 Bere Alston
1911 Plymouth, 13 Westeria, Peverell
1927 Devonport, 146 Ross Street
I was told that the image below was that of Beatrice & William, but he doesn't look like a laborer in the photo; he is a little too well dressed in my opinion.
John Hocking
b. 1829, Devon Hollacombe
m. Unknown
d. Unknown
b. 1829, Devon Hollacombe
m. Unknown
d. Unknown
John Hocking & Ann
John was a laborer and he moved around a lot during his lifetime.
I think that I was able to trace John's life as far back as 1841 where he was 12 years old, working on Thomas Brown's farm. We see him again in the census of 1871 married to Ann and that's the first time as well that we see his 3 year old son William.
In 1881, ten years later he is now married to Sophia. He worked his entire life as a labourer and is finally listed as a Widower in 1891.
His daughter Jessie lived with him her whole life as was witnessed in the 3 census'. The same source had his nephew James and an unwed mother with her child as lodgers.
Children:
With Ann:
Henry
James
Danial
John
Thomas
William
Jessy
With Sophia:
Richard
Samuel
John was a laborer and he moved around a lot during his lifetime.
I think that I was able to trace John's life as far back as 1841 where he was 12 years old, working on Thomas Brown's farm. We see him again in the census of 1871 married to Ann and that's the first time as well that we see his 3 year old son William.
In 1881, ten years later he is now married to Sophia. He worked his entire life as a labourer and is finally listed as a Widower in 1891.
His daughter Jessie lived with him her whole life as was witnessed in the 3 census'. The same source had his nephew James and an unwed mother with her child as lodgers.
Children:
With Ann:
Henry
James
Danial
John
Thomas
William
Jessy
With Sophia:
Richard
Samuel
John Hocking
b. 1796
m. Unknown
d. Unknown
b. 1796
m. Unknown
d. Unknown
John Hocking & Prissilla Balkwill, 1827 Shebbear, Devon, England
Ok, I can't prove that John & Prissilla are Johns parents. I really "think" that they could be. John of 1829 was born in Devon, Hollacombe and I searched in the census of 1841 for a man in that area aged between 40-50 years old. This didn't provide with me with a lot of choices so I will, for the time being, call John of 1796 the father of John of 1829. The same census of 1841 also listed a John Hocking aged 12 working on a farm in the Hollacombe area. So I can't really match the two men named John.
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